Aliens

[Gort]

Aug 25, 2022 16:46:14 GMT wompie said:

I believe that aliens exist, whether in the Universe or on earth. Why am I wrong?

Perhaps we were all originally Martians?

Who knows?

[Egginbonce]

Aug 26, 2022 2:37:48 GMT Gort said:

Aug 25, 2022 16:46:14 GMT wompie said:

I believe that aliens exist, whether in the Universe or on earth. Why am I wrong?

Perhaps we were all originally Martians?

Who knows?

or Mercurians, .... or Plutonians...   ( I know - trust me on this...)

[wompie]

Aug 26, 2022 6:20:39 GMT Egginbonce said:

Aug 26, 2022 2:37:48 GMT Gort said:

Perhaps we were all originally Martians?

Who knows?

or Mercurians, .... or Plutonians...   ( I know - trust me on this...)

Trust you Eggy?  How long have we been conversing on the internet and yet you ask me to trust you.  Crikey. 

My own view is that we have evolved on this planet. There are three possibilities as I understand it.

1. We evolved on earth from the earliest times. The problem of Abiogeneis has not been overcome as yet, but then we don't know the exact conditions under which it would have occurred. Every millisecond of 4 billion years has its own particular condition of that moment. 
2. We evolved from microscopic  life deposited on this planet from meteorites. We know that microscopic life can exist under extreme conditions for a very long time. But please cancel your plan for cryogenics. I said 'microscopic' life. . 
3. We were planted or came from other planets millions of years ago as an experiment of some other worldly beings. If so, evolution indicates it must have been  a similar procedure to item 2. The question then is why would they choose a planet so unstable that it fairly regularly - in terms of earthly years - kills a vast number of its inhabitants by earthquakes, volcanos, meteorites etc. 

On the basis of evidence - pictures, artefacts, stories and buildings all so similar to be coincidental - from around the world and from times when no known contact was available for intercontinental travel, point to outside visitation. From Australia come similar stories as found in  Japan - China - India - Egypt. Then across the Atlantic ocean to Middle and South America. Some ancient civilisations had knowledge that was beyond their capabilites. Where from?  Ancient Nations from around the world talk and described similar visitations. 

Anyway Charley tells me, by a wave of his left hand - tentacle - It's time for a cup of tea. He would use the mind transfer technique but it gives me a headache. 

[Egginbonce]

O....K, then........... is Life just a mechanical process, (or rather a whole set of them), or does it involve awareness? Is a living thing only, or more than, the sum of its parts, do yer think?

[wompie]

Aug 26, 2022 16:38:01 GMT Egginbonce said:

O....K, then........... is Life just a mechanical process, (or rather a whole set of them), or does it involve awareness? Is a living thing only, or more than, the sum of its parts, do yer think?

Adam clearly thought so when he looked Eve up and down on their first meeting. He added his part to hers, and you know the rest.

I think life is a case of awareness. If it were a mechanical process nothing would alter. Mechanical implies a machine which has a programme have a programme to which it will stick. Man and nature do not. Man has 'evolved' with changing times. He has become aware of nature, to change his habits to accomodate more  modern practises. For instance I am aware that the Americans spell practise as practice. but I choose the English version.  Nature has the ability to recognise changes and adapt to those changes. Your hydrangea has the ability to recognise the type of soil and change its colour. Colour isn't built in. Some plants have literally adapted their habits for certain purposes like spreading their seeds. Cacti have adapted to live in the desert. They've 'learnt' how to preserve water. They've also learnt to develop spikes for protection. Many flowewrs have adapted their flower heads to attract birds with certain types of beaks. THIS ISN'T MECHANICAL. iT'S NATURE WORKING THINGS OUT. 

On the other hand if you're religious, life is mechanical.You are programmed not to think or question your programmer. Sometimes. however, someone drops a hammer in that machinery and you can start thinking for yourself.

Do stones have 'feelings'. Most definitely. Throw one and you can clearly hear it say 'ouch' when it hits a human, or 'splash' when it goes into water. 

Awareness?  Eggy is going to come back with a rootin., tootin, son of a gun answer.





 

[Egginbonce]

Aug 26, 2022 17:59:21 GMT wompie said:

Aug 26, 2022 16:38:01 GMT Egginbonce said:

O....K, then........... is Life just a mechanical process, (or rather a whole set of them), or does it involve awareness? Is a living thing only, or more than, the sum of its parts, do yer think?

Adam clearly thought so when he looked Eve up and down on their first meeting. He added his part to hers, and you know the rest.

I think life is a case of awareness. If it were a mechanical process nothing would alter. Mechanical implies a machine which has a programme have a programme to which it will stick. Man and nature do not. Man has 'evolved' with changing times. He has become aware of nature, to change his habits to accomodate more  modern practises. For instance I am aware that the Americans spell practise as practice. but I choose the English version.  Nature has the ability to recognise changes and adapt to those changes. Your hydrangea has the ability to recognise the type of soil and change its colour. Colour isn't built in. Some plants have literally adapted their habits for certain purposes like spreading their seeds. Cacti have adapted to live in the desert. They've 'learnt' how to preserve water. They've also learnt to develop spikes for protection. Many flowewrs have adapted their flower heads to attract birds with certain types of beaks. THIS ISN'T MECHANICAL. iT'S NATURE WORKING THINGS OUT. 

On the other hand if you're religious, life is mechanical.You are programmed not to think or question your programmer. Sometimes. however, someone drops a hammer in that machinery and you can start thinking for yourself.

Do stones have 'feelings'. Most definitely. Throw one and you can clearly hear it say 'ouch' when it hits a human, or 'splash' when it goes into water. 

Awareness?  Eggy is going to come back with a rootin., tootin, son of a gun answer.





 

Well, at the risk of being a bore, I have to say that I'm sort of on board with all of that....... I spose I shud add into the mix, the idea  that this 'awareness', of which you speak, is self existent, and isnt generated by the living things that it 'inhabits'- they are secondary to it.....ha!      Now we're cooking with gas(!), and are possibly back to this 'god ' idea, except that we aint talking about an old guy with a white beard who casts judgements, throws thunderbolts and despite being all powerful, is often overpowered by ( ta dah..)..our old mate, The Devil!
 Stones, and their feelings eh?- What would a stone know about that then?  The answer might depend on what we mean by 'knowing'.....My own answer always gets vigorously rebuffed, and its the 'vigorously bit that makes me think I might be on the right track here...


 'what is this awareness of which you speak?' ( Hiawatha, at the Battle of the Big Horn, 1995)

[Egginbonce]

[Egginbonce]

[wompie]

If we aren't 'aware' of our surroundings that bloody great juggernaut is going to run us down. Jump for it. Unfortunately the tiny tot isn't aware of the danger, through lack of experience. Of course it depends on what you mean by 'awareness'. Is the newborn baby 'aware' that the nipple means food when it immediately sucks, or is it just in its genes. I don't think we're back to god - I think we're back to evolution. From the earliest creature knowledge/experience has been built up and passed on through 'reproduction'. From the simple splitting of cells until the present time.


Hang on. This was about aliens. Do they exist.

Absolutely YES. Without a shadow of doubt. YES. What form they take is another matter.

[jubilee70]

Proof, where is the proof of that, I suppose anything that is alien to our way of life is alien, they don’t have to come from outer space .just saying.

[Egginbonce]

Aug 27, 2022 11:35:53 GMT jubilee70 said:

Proof, where is the proof of that, I suppose anything that is alien to our way of life is alien, they don’t have to come from outer space .just saying.

dont forget that we too are in 'outer space'....

[jubilee70]

Aug 27, 2022 11:57:48 GMT Egginbonce said:

Aug 27, 2022 11:35:53 GMT jubilee70 said:

Proof, where is the proof of that, I suppose anything that is alien to our way of life is alien, they don’t have to come from outer space .just saying.

dont forget that we too are in 'outer space'....

You are right there Eggy, we can’t keep taking in all those illegal immigrants, because we will definitely be out of space soon, just saying.

[wompie]

Aug 27, 2022 11:35:53 GMT jubilee70 said:

Proof, where is the proof of that, I suppose anything that is alien to our way of life is alien, they don’t have to come from outer space .just saying.

I think there is ample proof if we know how to read very ancient history. Graham Hancok has spent years travelling the world with his wife, studying ancient civilisation, religions, artefacts etc. etc. And has writtren several books on the subject. His studies have convinced me that the civilsations we know about were, in a lot of cases, preceded by more intelligent civilsations who were destroyed by catalysmic disasters. Survivors past on knowledge which became early 'myths' to the hunter gasthers that were left. Many of the 'myths' being actual knowledge which helped in the  progress of new civilisations who read the myths as ancient truths. . The Aztecs. The Mayans. Egyptians and others had knowledge that was beyond their capabliities of the time. 


The story of Osiris, in Egypt who offered gifts of civilisation to those who were willing to receive them, turning men from there miserable and barbarous ways. He taught them agriculture, formed a code of laws and provided religion..
Osiris, it is written, then left Egypt and taught other nations by gentle persuasion, appealing to their reason. They followed his ways.

Nothing spectacular about that BUt

6000+ miles away cross the Atlantic - before the days of known travel -

In central  America, with the  Mayans,  the same happened. . A man appeared in a boat Taught the same as Osiris. after much time he left in a boat, turned out by an enemy.

The same story, Incas,  appears in Southern America. With a different name. 

 From the American continet across the world to Australia almost identical stories of beings descending from the sky in vehicle, and returning to the sky. Also identical, artefacts, buildings, drawings of these creatures adorn history. From every continent there are stories of lost early advanced civilisations, ancient peoples and aliens. 

Religious texts are not free from the stories. Elijahs ascent in a whirlwing with horses. Ezekiels whirling wheels. Jesus talking with Moses and Elijah on the mountain. Angels.   

 Egypt, the American continent - most Indian tribes record visits,  India's gods are mostly alien visitors, China, Japan, Australia have been visited according to historic recordings. 

Of course. How much you believe is up to you.   

Flying saucers are irrefutable. Many a single man will tell you how accurate their ex's were with crockery. 

[Egginbonce]

Aug 27, 2022 10:52:53 GMT wompie said:

If we aren't 'aware' of our surroundings that bloody great juggernaut is going to run us down. Jump for it. Unfortunately the tiny tot isn't aware of the danger, through lack of experience. Of course it depends on what you mean by 'awareness'. Is the newborn baby 'aware' that the nipple means food when it immediately sucks, or is it just in its genes. I don't think we're back to god - I think we're back to evolution. From the earliest creature knowledge/experience has been built up and passed on through 'reproduction'. From the simple splitting of cells until the present time.


Hang on. This was about aliens. Do they exist.

Absolutely YES. Without a shadow of doubt. YES. What form they take is another matter.

I spose 'sentience' might be a better word, rather than 'processing'...The tot is certainly aware of its existence, etc ...A cat is +vely whiskas-o- tropic, and  even an amoeba is attracted to food, and repulsed by a pin prick..A plant is +vly heliotropic, too, and grows towards the light, tho it seems to be up for debate about a plants sentience.

[wompie]

Difficult one. A sentient baby can experience sensations/feelings. But does that mean it has the ability to think and use those sensations. A baby may experience hunger but does it know what that is. It's instinct from genetic evolution that sucks on the nipple. The tot may see the juggernaut coming but is it aware of the danger. .

You're giving me a headache. Where's the paracetemol. Bring back Catherine. That's easier.😂

If I see 'Microsoft Edge not responding' any more today I shall send my computer plus bomb to their headquarters.